Curse

Lopezus · Feb 18, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Since the update all my dervish builds for PvE went down the toilet: WS/SY!, AoG, AoD ( for solo farming ) etc. Anyone got something new and enjoyable to share ?

MrDark88 · Feb 18, 2011, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Keep in mind that the update is still relatively new. Most are still testing builds in different areas of the game. I find it quite enjoyable.

Olle · Feb 18, 2011, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Id suggest you try make an build yourself..

Zyph · Feb 18, 2011, 03:20 PM // 15:20

As a new Dervish (and Player) that's only halfway through Nightfall, I find this update irritating. I'm with you Lopezus, I had a build that was doing decently well then it went all away. I don't have enough skills to start testing every possible build so I'm kinda looking for a general idea of what new skills I now need to go seek.

EDIT: This is what I'm going with as of now:
OgGkUNpsaymk2GzF0lF4AW1FC2bJ

Lopezus · Feb 18, 2011, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Well right now i'm too irritated to do a decent build myself. I especially don't like the new mysticism, while the atribute needed the buff, dervish recieved a nerf, it's actually a lot harder to synergize a good build now, plus you don't benefit from other enchatments ( like protection) and energy reduction cost for dervish enchantments is not even as beneficial as an old energy gain on enchanments end. Avatars are another problem, before it required 2 skill to efectivly use: avatar+EA, now avatars are perma but to even gain some benefit ( still minor to old one) it requires at least 3 skills : Avatars, enchant, enchant removal wtf.

MrDark88 · Feb 18, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Well right now i'm too irritated to do a decent build myself. I especially don't like the new mysticism, while the atribute needed the buff, dervish recieved a nerf, it's actually a lot harder to synergize a good build now, plus you don't benefit from other enchatments ( like protection) and energy reduction cost for dervish enchantments is not even as beneficial as an old energy gain on enchanments end. Avatars are another problem, before it required 2 skill to efectivly use: avatar+EA, now avatars are perma but to even gain some benefit ( still minor to old one) it requires at least 3 skills : Avatars, enchant, enchant removal wtf.

I find it more beneficial than the old one considering more than half of the Scythe Mastery line runs on adrenaline. The main skills using energy are dervish enchantments, and the energy cost of those is drastically reduced with decent Mysticism spec.

You'll hardly have energy problems now, and if you do you can use the adrenaline to energy skill that is Radiant Scythe.

LifeInfusion · Feb 18, 2011, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Radiant scythe is likely going to be nerfed, since you can crank out +20 easily. It's hard to have less than 16 energy unless you are being dumb with low mysticism. Since it is adrenaline based energy management it is ridiculously strong.

You have zealous renewal at your disposal, Mysticism reduction, and if you want, 1 to 3 energy every 1.125 seconds from a zealous scythe on IAS.

Skyy High · Feb 18, 2011, 04:56 PM // 16:56

FFS....we've known about the impending dervish overhaul for months now, and people are whining that it actually shook s*** up?

chuckles79 · Feb 18, 2011, 05:45 PM // 17:45

what are you complaining about, 3 flash enchants (including sand shards), holy flame, ava of balth., aura slicer, and pious assault.

It's mobageddon. All mobs are toast. Make a monk hero a bonder then wade in before your H/h's and watch the damage stack.

Sand Shards is a non-elite 100b for crying outloud that casts instantly and recharges quickly. Avatars now recharge before they run out, and Eternal Aura prevents partywipes (provided Derv is last man standing).

The only build they nerfed was WS, because it was boring and could be replicated by all other physical classes.
They repurposed the Dervish to be about massive physical and elemental AoE surrounding the player.

This update makes every class of foe except rangers dead meat. Just for giggles, they added stance removal skills to make rangers less of a threat.

I say get all the mileage you can before they start balancing downwards.

Lopezus · Feb 18, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Meh, with thinking like this WS still own: aura of thorns/or/ HoHf /or/ balthazar's Rage and you can still spam Deep Wound like there's no tommorow...

Evad Nongahc · Mar 16, 2011, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I tried something interesting for a few days...
Note that this is not for places where you may need Holy damage..
And this is for General PvE with a team with at least one good healer.

OgCikysMJftcBd9cNeZfVe1DCA

Kaleban · Mar 16, 2011, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Since the update all my dervish builds for PvE went down the toilet: WS/SY!, AoG, AoD ( for solo farming ) etc. Anyone got something new and enjoyable to share ?

Really?

Most of the truly effective old builds were boring, like ZV/skill spam and others that just made the Derv a poor copy of a War or Sin.

Now however, the builds that are coming out of this update are much more varied, allowing the Derv to not only play in more areas than before, but also to supercede in many ways the other professions that eclipsed it.

Just off the top of my head, I have several builds on my Derv that I switch out to shake things up, like a AoG disease spreader, a Pious Renewal teardown spammer, MQSC runner (with Eternal Aura for rezzing failPUGs), the ubiquitous VoS/SS build that in some ways beats out 100b, and more.

The update not only made nearly all the Derv's skills synergize much better with Mysticism, it pretty much eliminated energy concerns.

What more could you ask for? If you need hand holding, head to PvXWiki and look under the "Testing" section of PvE builds, that will give you a good basis to start making your own builds.

Whirl E Vic · Mar 16, 2011, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I kinda like onslaught in places where the enchant hate isn't too bad.
been running things like:
Vict. Sweep, Radiant Scythe, CV, Onslaught, I am the Strongest, Intim. aura, vow of piety
and variations thereof.

Can't really be bothered with the whole enchant teardown mechanic.

Honestly though, with the firepower that you can bring running 7 heroes, you're free to experiment with "sub-optimal" builds and still destroy most everything.

byteme! · Mar 17, 2011, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Since the update all my dervish builds for PvE went down the toilet: WS/SY!, AoG, AoD ( for solo farming ) etc. Anyone got something new and enjoyable to share ?

So it's been a month since you've created this thread. Have you actually tested/made any builds yet or are you just gonna sit around and wait for the smart people to spoon feed you? I could sit here and spam a bunch of builds I've tried (which is what you want) but it ain't gonna happen until you can prove you've done your own homework.

Bad Company Sin · Mar 17, 2011, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Avatar of balthy with attacks, teardown enchants+a hero casting PS on you, wade in, tank, take a paragon hero with SYG, Theyre on Fire or W/E = damage reduction = let hero's nuke or something Mop hero, whirlwind+enchant removal = good game pve.

Beomagi · Mar 18, 2011, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Well right now i'm too irritated to do a decent build myself. I especially don't like the new mysticism, while the atribute needed the buff, dervish recieved a nerf, it's actually a lot harder to synergize a good build now, plus you don't benefit from other enchatments ( like protection) and energy reduction cost for dervish enchantments is not even as beneficial as an old energy gain on enchanments end. Avatars are another problem, before it required 2 skill to efectivly use: avatar+EA, now avatars are perma but to even gain some benefit ( still minor to old one) it requires at least 3 skills : Avatars, enchant, enchant removal wtf.

It requires one to think of synergy to get the most out of it. you dont have to do enchantment stripping with avatars - but it helps. Some attacks like pious are particularly powerful.

Scythes attack faster and you've got one of the best ias skills in the game now with a sustained time and no real drawback.

I'm enjoying the changes. I'm figuring out which 2 enchantments I want to take to fuel pious/avatar and what spammable attack skill I should take. I'm glad they got rid off the damage modifiers asuran scan/aura of holy might. sticking those on each time was formulaic and boring.

As far as protection, you now have more armor and a skill that reduces spell damage by a percent.

Bandwagon · Mar 18, 2011, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Why is everyone quoting Lopezus? He has not contributed to this thread for a month yet you go out of your way to criticize his words when its obvious he left this thread to rot for one month now....If I knew where he was coming from just by looking at the thread and its intent, it looks like he made it to vent his frustration.

Lopezus · Mar 24, 2011, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Well, so after a month i still think i was right back then... Ok, old staple builds were boring to play - fair enough, update bring some needed fresh approach -ok, but i thought the dervishes needed some buff in pve, having tons of useless skills. In the end dervish recieved nerf, just x/D were hit much harder loosing a lot of efficency in the process. I wanted drvish elites to become sometihng really useful, especially avatars as they seems so fine concept on paper. So yeah i tested different builds with avatars and they are frankly total weaksausce in comparison to the old ones. They only don't seem like it b/c people rarly even used them back then and now you can place them on heroes. I don't remember people playing EDA before update but i did, it was fun elite in its own way but now it doesn't deserve to be elite at all as far as pve goes. The list can go on and on..Mysticsm changes is also beyond my understanding, somehow paragons can take benefit form warior shouts, but dervish is only locked on dervish enchantments...now that's boring.
90% of new builds is weaker then if their concept were recreated with old version of skills, but back then such ideas were considered such sub-optimal especially in comparion to x/D that no-one even tried them.

mortenya · Mar 24, 2011, 04:01 PM // 16:01

i don't know man, i think the avatars are way better than they used to be, but only if you take advantage of the teardown system.

i think on the whole, dervish is stronger now (at least mine is) but if you're trying to use your old builds, they'll likely fall flat. the elite scythe attacks don't seem worth putting on a bar at all. the teardown mechanic isn't the most fun to me, but it is more active, and it brings a lot of good effects with it, dervs can bring a lot of conditions to a group now, easier than before that is.

the only issue i have is managing my enchants well, because most of the good attacks require removing a derv enchant. which means enchant removal effects us a little more than before if we aren't careful.

Bandwagon · Mar 24, 2011, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Its time to post dissect,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Well, so after a month i still think i was right back then... Ok, old staple builds were boring to play - fair enough, update bring some needed fresh approach -ok, but i thought the dervishes needed some buff in pve, having tons of useless skills.

There was only one build that was considered staple, and that was ZV, any other sup bar build that did not sport this elite was incapable of managing its energy so that it could utilize all the skills on its bar.

Quote:

So yeah i tested different builds with avatars and they are frankly total weaksausce in comparison to the old ones. They only don't seem like it b/c people rarly even used them back then and now you can place them on heroes.

That's quite the generalization, even before the update most of the elites were crap, EDA was not needed in PvE and was subject to enchant hate, the new one is anti blind, blind and a conjure, how is that not a buff? Sure you can't spam blind (Lyssa can do that pretty easily with Dust Cloak though) but it has so much more going for it (maybe not after the nerf). The same can be said about pretty much every other elite except for Reaper's Sweep (overshadowed by Earthshaker).

Quote:

Mysticsm changes is also beyond my understanding, somehow paragons can take benefit form warior shouts, but dervish is only locked on dervish enchantments...now that's boring.

I wish ranger expertise affected all skills so my ranger could use all the skills with a discount in energy but alas, it only affects ranger primaries, the focus of the dervish is on his primary and the secondary is support / utility. This is the stance of the live team and it works. Mysticism still grants armor irrespective of what type of enchant is on the dervish anyway, and if you really want the old shitty mysticism back, bring meditation.

Quote:

90% of new builds is weaker then if their concept were recreated with old version of skills, but back then such ideas were considered such sub-optimal especially in comparion to x/D that no-one even tried them.

You failed to factor in A scan and old AoHM, if those were still around today, Dervs would be pulling out huge numbers post buff seeing how they have adrenaline skills that don't require energy as well as access to more potent forms of energy management that doesn't require your elite and heavy investment in Wind Prayers, nevermind the fact that the scythe hits faster, and the Derv has access to permanent and easy IAS.

Shit has changed for the better by a long shot.

Old Skills vs New Skills (elites)

Pious Renewal - used to be a long recharge strip enchantment with a cast time, why would anyone bring it? Now it is flash and recharges whenever its stripped allowing you to fill your bar with tear down.

All avatars in general - needed another skill to maintain, now we have an extra PVE skill on our bar. Avatar of Balth actually has offense capacity (srsly how is +40 armor and IMS in PvE worth an elite slot AND a PVE slot when old conviction did all of that + block?), Avatar of Grenth, and Melandru and had huge energy problems, yet they pretty much remained the same functionality post update (melandru is still pretty much immune to conditions, plus extra health and armor vs the most dangerous source of damage in PvE). Dwayna's remains pretty much the same, and Lyssa can spam enchants, and in crowds, perform on the fly energy management.

Wounding Strike - got buffed out the ying yang, it now deals +damage in addition to its DW + cover bleeding, sure it needs a tear down, but dervs are now balanced around spamming tear down (and won't need to sacrifice 1 second of standing still + potential aftercast in order to set the kill up.

Reaper's Sweep - I see where they were going with this, the old Reapers Sweep was a WS clone with different numbers, now its its own skill and if you want 3 second 1-3 target KDs, well there you go, you have the option now.

Onslaught - Buffed out the wazoo, pre update, why would I waste time to cast an enchant that could be stripped and leave me w/o my elite, IAS and IMS for 20 seconds? Now it has a lower recharge, its a flash, it retains original effect and grants bonus adrenaline, HOW is that not a buff??!!

Grenth's Grasp - retains original functionality and offers condition transfer, and flash enchant status, buffed in every way that made it weak before hand.

Vow of Strength - now it no longer requires the team to forgo conditions, hell its HB with a different flavour, in certain areas with little / no enchant hate this skill is flat out superior to HB (never mind the fact it triggers on each scythe swing for those that don't manly spike with MoP)

What of the other skills? Grenth's Aura, Pious Fury, Test of Faith, Mirage Cloak, Staggering Force (hell the additon of Cracked Armor in general), Twin Moon Sweep, Radiant Scythe, Wearying Strike, Lyssa's Haste, Pious Assault and Harriers Haste. These skills were quite lackluster before, not they are close to meta depending on what you want to do with your Dervish.